KK Wong: Thank you chairman. I think Professor Kwok has a point but I think academic freedom… I think here is the Council meeting on this particular issue is not the main point of concern because we are talking about is the recruitment of human resources matter. Whether or not we are appointing a person does not relate to academic freedom. I think we all respect academic freedom very well. And as our President said in the opening and remarks, right now we are really in a dilemma…: approve it, disapprove it or delay it. Every single option will have a down side. I think we have to make a choice.
After reading the papers which is the first time I have ever heard of this paper, then I officially looked at the name of the candidate although I have heard about the name in the press for a long time. I do feel that we have to be very cautious in this appointment because, as some of our colleagues mentioned earlier, we have to really unite--I am talking about HKU only, not Hong Kong. We have to unite, trying to develop a strategy under the instruction of President to really foster and assure academic freedom, academic excellence and also smooth human relation. I think we have been divided too much. We need somebody to really hold us together, our chairman, our President and all our senior management team. So, on balance, without referring to particular issues, I really think that there’re controversies surrounding the candidate. So maybe it needs more cautious step to appoint a person in this post as soon as possible, but I will not support the nomination at this point.
Martin Liao: … I have made some enquiries amongst the senior academics both in this University and other universities…it is more or less the same thing. I did look into the publications for the past five years myself, and also nothing as detailed and as comprehensive as Edward’s research. Perhaps just to supplement on what Edward said, I have looked into the past five years, and I was looking for citations of academic work that from the candidate, and there was none, except there was googled four times, googled… research… I mean it was google searched… it was google searched four times, and there was no citation. Thank you.
廖長江：我請教了港大與其他大學的資深學者，得到的答案相去不遠。我親自查了過去5年的學術出版品，不比Edward的研究詳細廣泛。也許只是幫Edward所說的再補充一點，我查了過去5年之中這位候選人的學術作品被引用的情形，結果沒有半次，僅被google了4次，google… 研究… 我的意思是google的搜尋，在google被搜尋了4次，而且沒有引用紀錄。謝謝。
CM Lo: My position in the Council is somewhat similar to KY. We are both academic staff elected by staff members. I fully understand that we are here at our full capacity. I am not representing the staff but I do have the perspective from the staff members. So in terms of the academic qualifications, I can make some comments and in terms of how I see him as the potential candidate for PVC staffing, remember this is related to academic staffing and resources. So that’s why I feel that I can give my opinion and thoughts about the appointment.
Firstly it is on academic achievement. Secondly, as a staff, whether I see him as a suitable person to take care of staffing and resources because there have very important implications for us, for the staff. I am a new member of the council and I was elected in May, so I have been in the Council this is the forth one. When I decided to accept the nomination, I really don’t have this item on my agenda, I am a bit regret now as if you look at the attack against Johannes Chan, I would say that my suffer in the last couple of months is a result in the participation in this Council, is perhaps even more than one. He has the right to complain about. I don’t know what I should do. I was fulfilling my duty as a University staff elected representative to take part in this council meeting and every time I remind myself this is my duty to do this for the best interest of the University.
But when I fell, all these people, I am not saying only the students, I know there are people outside the University, there is no doubt that the student lead the crowd in and I have this meeting. I have been teased in so many articles, so many pictures to say that I am an actor, 插水, alright. I really feel very bad, I didn’t complain eventually and even when I was in the hospital and I talked to the media with my occupation in charge that I will kindly accept, 我唔追究D 學生. That’s my true believe because I feel very sad if those people in the room and outside were our students, I really feel ashamed. We have not do our duty well.
I always remind myself that what I read in the newspaper cannot be taken as the truth and I always say and tell other people that I don’t know the candidate, until I saw it on the table in this meeting. I was asked, before this meeting, in the last honorary fellowship conference. All these media come to me asking, would you accept this JC be received as the next PVC and I said come on, how can you ask me to make a conclusion before I actually conducted a study as an academic, we should not make conclusion before we looked at the facts. The facts are here and the facts are also from all the discussions we had. I really appreciated all the members and I truly believe everyone here is an independent trustee of the University, hoping for the best interest of the University. I appreciate all the thoughts and I now saying what I think base on all these facts, what is my opinion.
Now, first of all I have to declare my conflict of interest, I know JC. He was in the same hostel with me in St. John’s College so we live next to another floor. We know each other and in some of the previous University activities he has expressed support for me and for my department. So I really appreciate his support for me and in fact when I heard about his nomination in the media, that he is the candidate... and in the personal point of view that he is a good guy as many of the members have said. He is a good man. He has been working for the University for so long. This is the first impression for me that I should support him.
After looking at this and especially after the incident in July, I have some reservation. It is about his qualification. Professor Chan has a very detailed analysis on the publication. You can look at it, for the last 15 years, he has produced less than 5 items output including factor and article, less than 5 a year and in some years for example, in 2008, he has produced only 1 item, 2011, 1 item only. I know the number, quantity, is not the absolute measure, you have to see the quality as well.
If I have an assistant professor with this kind of output, I will be very concerned about, I would really say, hey, how can you reach the bar of the notion with in the university, very strict criteria 4 + 4 for practical, 3 + 3 for non-practical, for promotion either up or out from an assistant professor to an associate professor. And if my assistant professor give me a CV which is 1 output per year, I would say, you are in trouble. In 6 years or in 8 years time, how many publications did you have in your CV, you can’t reach that bar. I agree with KY that the University, the USBC, he is not a case to promotion and I doubt whether the same applies to the Law faculty. I believe it should, you still have to same sort of criteria.
Professor Chan is actually the best person here as an academic. So I would like to start a question whether he has the academic qualifications to take up this position especially he will be looking at staffing, looking at promotion and if you are not a Phd yourself how can you supervise people. The same as if you are not academically of certain standing. How can you say, hey, you are not well presented. The candidate would really say, look at your CV, your CV is not as good as mine. How can you turn down an application, if you don’t have the kind of quality?
So this is my feeling when I saw this CV and reminded me of quality and whether he is qualified as a PVC. Perhaps the VC may not be aware of this but certainly I think after this point was mentioned, I hope as the search committee chairman, you would consider whether, you know, you said just now you were not aware of this and you take it for granted since he has been promoted to a professor and since he is appointed as a dean, he must qualify. I don’t feel that should be some trivial correlation
PM: ……there were 4 academic members on the search committee. I was qualified to make academic judgments. I have a lot of experience of making these judgments. There were 3 other academic members of the committee. So there were 4 ppl, 3 of them are not here to represent their views, so my job as a chairman is to represent their views. Academic credentials were considered, and were considered suitable. Council members may disagree. But I am not going to go back from the judgement made by the search committee.
As to a comment to the number of papers he published, I think it’s utterly irrelevant. There’s no job description that says you could have published certain number of papers or you’re not qualified for this role. The… number of papers published that not enough quality and you can’t transfer from medicine into law because the publication requirement is different. So frankly the number of paper he published in the last 15 years (…)
CM Lo: Well that’s the qualification part… my feeling about reading his CV...the second part is related to whether he's suitable for this position, because he's going to take care of academic staffing. And my expectation for such person has to be very impartial. I wouldn't have problem with political approval, alright? You can apply to your…political meeting or whatever. I do have many staffs who take part in occupy central. They are so yellow, and I've expressed my position and my opinion that I did not support occupy central. I don't have a problem in the hospital. Because they work in hospital, political opinion does not affect their clinical service, and never change their duty just because they support occupy central. That should not affect your work in the university and the hospital.
But on that event, on that night that we have been in the storm of council meeting and subsequently my injury. And after the event, I really didn't see him showing any sympathy for the council members, and particular… I...myself…. I am a staff elected by the all the other staff to take part, and I sustained and injured. From all the opinion that he has expressed, actually he's still putting the blame on the council, he has never, I'm not saying I need his sympathy. But as a staff, I really feel if you are PVC (staffing) and if a staff member had an injury during an event like this, should you just keep on saying it's the council's fault. That means it's my fault as well? So in a way he's telling the public, he's speaking out in public, including his《香港家書》, that the fault remains in the council...in a way…for the suffering I encountered. That is my concern, and as I said before, I came to this meeting when I know he’s a potential candidate. I am very supportive initially, but with this and now looking his CV and what happened and his way of handling it... I really need to think twice before considering him as a suitable person for this position, and I wonder, I know the recommendation by the search committee was actually made a while ago, was actually written in July... With that kind of incidents and the way that this candidate has expressed his opinion in public, would the search committee still consider that kind of person is suitable to handle academic staffing and resource? Because as a staff, I am seriously concerned, even though I know I am here not representing the staff.
CH: The recommendation of search committee was made in July (...) sorry in May. So anything after that was not included.
CM Lo: … If that is the case. Can I ask the chairman of the search committee, would you take into account of what happened afterwards, that this candidate has done this (VC: done what?), openly breached the confidentiality calling himself a candidate, and then was complaining that the council has not doing the right thing? and despite the fact that there are council members including the staff member who suffer injury during that event, he has expressed no concern whatsoever, to the safety of the council and staff members.
And in contrast, he put the blame on the council members and including me as a staff member. I am really terrified that someone with this kind of... I don't want to extrapolate but I felt the threat is someone ... i would say he's putting his political intonation into the university. Because at a ... political opinion he may think that I am here to represent CY. I can tell you I am not a 梁粉. I came in with support of the staff members. I've never talked to CY. CY has never talked to me about this. But it seems that everybody there including Johannes Chan has labelled..Whatever I suffer, I deserve it.
盧寵茂：相反地，他怪罪校委會成員包括我這名職員。我對於有人以這種…感到驚恐，我不想亂猜但我覺得真正的威脅是有人… 我要說的是他把他的政治論調帶進大學，因為… 政治意見，他可能認為我在這裡代表梁振英，我可以告訴你我不是梁粉。我是因為其他職員的支持而在這裡。我從未和梁振英談過。梁振英從未與我談過這件事。但看起來每個人，包括陳文敏都已（對我）貼標籤。無論我遭遇到什麼都是我活該
PM: So my comment on that is I think you’ve taken things very personally, and I think we should keep things to factual discussion, and the purpose of the candidate. There’s no requirement in the job description for the candidate to express sympathy otherwise on anybody who is injured. I think you are putting post-event facts into this particular context, so the … I can’t speak for the Search Committee, Search Committee hasn’t met since 27 May, I can only speak as a Council Member, the events that happened since the Search Committee’s paper was written on 27 May, there have been many things written and said, a lot of opinions, I prefer to stick to the facts. And the facts that the Committee has to consider were the qualification and suitability for the post. I’ve already said at the start of the meeting that it’s my view that whilst none of the outcomes are attractive, to my mind, there will be less damage done for the University by the acception of the nomination ...